Featured Guest
You’ll find this guest among our growing roll of Urban Champions.
Tara Pham
Co-Founder and CEO, Numina
Siri Agrell
Strategic Consultant
John Jung
Chairman & Co-Founder, Intelligent Community Forum
Jean-Noé Landry
Volunteer Governance Specialist, Solon
Brian Kelcey
Public policy consultant and founder, State of the City
5 Key
Takeaways
A roundup of the most compelling ideas, themes and quotes from this candid conversation|
Additional Reading
& Resources
1. Better procurement is the Quay
Governments and tech companies move at different paces. We need people in government who understand how to work with tech, and tech partners who understand the challenges and nuances of policymaking. We also need better procurement processes that articulate the problem being solved rather than prescribing the solution.
2. The rules need to be set
Post-Sidewalk, panelists agreed that Canada has the opportunity to develop regulations to level the playing field, and set the rules, values and principles to help tech companies bidding for projects, and residents trying to understand whose data is being collected and for what ends.
3. Bridging the digital divide
There is a digital divide across Canada, with some cities better able to take advantage of smart city technologies than others. Bridging this divide, for example, by prioritizing universal broadband access, is a must.
4. Catalyzing tech’s role in community resilience
According to one panelist, “I think one of the saddest things in tech is that our greatest minds went to go develop tech for more clicks. This is actually an opportunity for us to show people who care about technology how to give to their communities and actually like build meaningful things instead.”
5. To what end? At what risk?
Ultimately, to take full advantage of the promise of smart-city technology, and avoid its perils, we need to figure out the issue we are trying to solve for, the trade-offs, and the possible unintended consequences.
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Screen New Deal: Under Cover of Mass Death, Andrew Cuomo Calls in the Billionaires to Build a High-Tech Dystopia, Naomi Klein, The Intercept
Why we’re no longer pursuing the Quayside project — and what’s next for Sidewalk Labs, Daniel Doctoroff
Tech Firms Need More Regulation – The industry must cooperate to solve problems—but government must take a more active role as well, Brad Smith (President of Microsoft), Carol Ann Browne (Senior director of communications and external relations at Microsoft)
Open Smart Cities Guide, Open North
Port Lands 2024, Waterfront Toronto
Full Panel
Transcript
Note to readers: This video session was transcribed using auto-transcribing software. Manual editing was undertaken in an effort to improve readability and clarity. Questions or concerns with the transcription can be directed to events@canurb.org with “transcription” in the subject line.
Full Audience
Chatroom Transcript
Note to reader: Chat comments have been edited for ease of readability. The text has not been edited for spelling or grammar. For questions or concerns, please contact events@canurb.org with “Chat Comments” in the subject line.
12:01:20 From Mounir Kabbara: excited for this!
12:01:31 From Felipe Canavera::D:D:D
12:01:53 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Welcome to today’s webinar. Please remember to join the conversation on Twitter using the hashtag #citytalk.
12:02:02 From Felipe Canavera: 😃😃😃😃
12:02:35 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please also toggle your chat function to include “All panelists and attendees” so that everyone can see your comments.
12:03:00 From Abby S: Is it possible to get a link to the Amanda Laing talk?
12:03:06 From Gurpreet Patheja to All panelists: Looking forward to this discussion.
12:04:27 From Canadian Urban Institute: You can find transcripts and recordings of today’s and all our webinars at
https://canurb.org/citytalk
12:04:43 From Abby S: I was wondering about the one that richard just mentioned…
12:04:43 From Canadian Urban Institute: CUI is looking for volunteers to help us continue the great work of our COVID-19 initiatives. If you can help, please contact us at covidresponse@canurb.org
12:04:59 From Lisa Cavicchia, CUI Staff: Dan Doctoroff & Amanda Lang: https://www.mediaevents.ca/canadianclub-20190416-doctoroff/
12:05:05 From Abby S: Thank you!
12:05:17 From Lisa Cavicchia, CUI Staff: Sorry, that’s a month old
12:05:47 From Lisa Cavicchia, CUI Staff: I can’t see it online yet
12:06:19 From Denise Ng to All panelists: The recording of the ULI session will be available on our members-based platform, Knowledge Finder in the next couple of days
12:06:23 From Canadian Urban Institute: Keep the conversation going #citytalk
12:06:33 From Les Klein to All panelists: It is a year and a month old!
12:06:44 From Canadian Urban Institute: Folks, please change your chat settings to “all panelists and attendees” so everyone can see your comments.
12:06:56 From Abby S: Yes…i just noticed…
12:07:34 From Abby S to All panelists: @Lisa Was it a BNN segment today?
12:07:57 From Abby S to All panelists: Mary is in a different room…
12:08:07 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Today’s panel:
Siri Agrell – https://twitter.com/SiriAgrell
Brian Kelcey – https://twitter.com/stateofthecity
https://www.stateofthecity.ca
John Jung – https://twitter.com/JohnGJung1
Homepage
Jean-Noé Landry – https://twitter.com/opennorth
https://www.opennorth.ca
Tara Pham – https://twitter.com/tarapham
Numina: Know Your Streets – Data for Walkable, Bikeable Communities
12:11:40 From kendall christiansen to All panelists: NYC just began closing of streets adjacent to parks; too early to tell what that means (weather hasn’t fully cooperated), but what should we be looking for?
12:12:38 From Abby S: It is what is going to replace Quayside that is the question. And I agree with Brian, it was up to the governments to create the regulatory environment.
12:14:07 From Lester Brown: Replying to Abby S. It is only a small part of some fantastic work that is being done on our Waterfront. It will find somebody to fill that void.
12:15:20 From Lester Brown: Further it was only 12 acres, a very small part of Waterfront development.
12:16:23 From Abby S: Yes but how long has it remained fallow? I am sure someone will fill the void…the question is who? And will it have imagination and affordable housing etc. or will it be sold to the highest bidder to a conventional developer. That is my worry.
12:17:52 From Milton Friesen: Siri is flagging an important dynamic – someone noted (I forget who just now) that online communities are not the root for real community. They can support, expand, etc. but there are real limits zoom/remote. I observe it but also feel it in a visceral way as online only is required these days.
12:18:28 From BJ Danylchuk: That is a huge assumption about the necessity of these tools. The missing piece in all of this is that government and business are “doing to” communities (including not including them at all in the design of what a smart city or community is) instead of “doing with” the community…..this ties directly to the points discussed in an earlier panel, and the related reference “The Third Pillar”…
12:18:32 From Lester Brown: It has not (the part that Sidewalk was using) was used very recently. We have Corktown Common, Underpass Park, the Canary District, the Promenade, Sugar Beach, George Brown Campus, etc. It is incorrect to say nothing is happening there.
12:19:02 From Tonya Surman to All panelists: totally agree Milton…. super challenging to meet anyone new online… it just won’t cut it… super hard to build new business at the very least
12:19:32 From Canadian Urban Institute: Welcome new joiners! Just a reminder to please change your chat settings to “all panelists and attendees” so everyone can see your comments.
12:19:54 From Tonya Surman: totally agree Milton…. super challenging to meet anyone new online… it just won’t cut it… super hard to build new business at the very least
12:20:05 From Andrew Simpson to All panelists: Don’t forget the Don Mouth renaturalization – this is an incredibly innovative project that was funded by the 3 levels of government and shepparded by WaterfrontTO.
12:20:40 From Andrew Simpson: Don’t forget the Don Mouth renaturalization – this is an incredibly innovative project that was funded by the 3 levels of government and shepparded by WaterfrontTO.
12:21:06 From Abby S: @Lester we also have the Distillery, which started with independents and a vibrancy that ultimately was lost…it became unaffordable and lost that vibrancy that it started with. Part of it is accessibility.
12:21:48 From BJ Danylchuk: Brian – great point about the need for holistic approach – it’s not just about tech.
12:22:07 From Geraldine Cahill: Agree Andrew, the Don Mouth renaturalization is hugely exciting. Haven’t had an update in a while, but this is cause for optimism as far as I know about it.
12:22:29 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please help CUI improve its CityTalk programming with a short post-webinar survey – https://bit.ly/3fEfm9v
12:22:59 From Abby S: It is ironic how much surveillance is now being considered wrt the pandemic.
12:23:01 From Grant Duckworth to All panelists: Replace smart with learning cities.
12:23:12 From Gillian Mason: Well asked Mary!
12:23:15 From Abby S: Which goes back to the regulatory role of governments
12:23:22 From Lester Brown: yes to renaturalization. I live in the Distillery but it is separate from the Waterfront. A tale for another day. Agree somewhat.
12:23:39 From Francois Bedard to All panelists: Exactly ! Merci:-) …
12:23:39 From Andrew Simpson: Updates on Don Mouth here: https://portlandsto.ca/construction/
12:23:41 From Milton Friesen: Tonya – the art and craft, I think, is bringing the digital into the blend in a way that enriches the actual human organizational interactions. I sometimes think of the online as fertilizer – just enough is great. Too much and you undermine what you are trying to do.
12:23:43 From Negin Minaei: Sidewalk lab was not just a case study to bring Smart City to Toronto; it was way bigger than that. Yes, data privacy is one point but the most dangerous point about it was about generating an algorithm to be examined and perfected by AI in Google and possibly being used across the world in different cities as a model for urbanization disregarding citizenship engagement, sustainability and …. The real concept of ‘Smart Cities’ is not just about data and smart technologies. Seems the original and technical definition is lost and industry is playing us all to shrink our perspective to the type of services they can sell. There was nothing about sustainability and resilience that are more pressing for our existing cities.
12:23:50 From Mohamed Dhanani to All panelists: What void do panelists see that has been created by Sidewalk Labs leaving, and who can fill that void?
12:23:52 From Abby S: @Lester [no offence intended]
12:24:04 From Mohamed Dhanani to All panelists: Can Universities play a bigger role?
12:24:11 From Sarah Davies to All panelists: I hate the “smart” labeling too. It presupposes that cities NOT run by tech (and thus run by people) are somehow not “smart.” I feel the same way about calling them “intelligent” cities.
12:24:29 From Jean-Noé Landry (Open North) to All panelists: Here is our definition of an Open Smart Cities: An Open Smart City is where residents, civil society, academics, and the private sector collaborate with public officials to mobilize data and technologies when warranted in an ethical, accountable and transparent way to govern the city as a fair, viable and liveable commons and balance economic development, social progress and environmental responsibility. https://www.opennorth.ca/publications/#open-smart-cities-guide
12:24:30 From Robert Lane: Trade “Smart’ for Conscious and meeting the needs of the citizens without taking away their ownership of the assets of their cities
12:24:31 From Lauralyn Johnston: giving up privacy for personal and communal safety may be an acceptable trade-off. The question I heard about ‘smart cities’ before was who owns the data and who profits?
12:24:54 From john ARcher: Can tech communities only occur in large format master planned communities? Alphabet said it was only feasible with control of the whole port lands area. What about our current land use planning which is made up of millions of small land holdings – is this feasible with diffused land ownership?
12:24:57 From Steve Munro: Brian made an excellent point that “Smart” has been too software-centric when there are other aspects of technology that are just as important.
12:25:15 From Suzan Krepostman: https://theintercept.com/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-eric-schmidt-coronavirus-tech-shock-doctrine/
12:26:15 From Breanne Bateman: Does anyone know how to enable closed captions in zoom?
12:27:00 From Julius Lindsay: Governments should be tech companies, but they are not. they are woefully behind
12:27:05 From Abby S: @breanne on the left (on a laptop) there is audio settings.
12:27:11 From Abby S: You can scroll there to accessibility
12:27:20 From Lauralyn Johnston: vast parts of the city don’t have wifi. Or devices.
12:27:33 From Abby S: I’m not sure how it works on a iPad or tablet
12:28:01 From Abby S: @Breanne (lower left)
12:28:23 From Dina Sarhane: We definitely have the talent, we just don’t have the demand. We need our governments to support innovative small businesses. I have 2 small businesses in construction and design, we are doing really innovative work in wood fabrication. I loose to larger and older corporations all the time! I don’t have a chance to prove what our innovative work can do for our cities. Lets give local innovation a chance at significant civic projects.
12:29:10 From john ARcher: there is a lot of tech for tech sake that can be wasteful. There are programs that will notify me when sidewalks have too much snow – well I can just outside and know it is time to shovel snow. Should discuss being sold on too much tech for cities.
12:29:54 From Maureen Shuell: Will Sidewalk’s withdrawal be discussed?
12:30:27 From michael morrissey: Pls don’t forget to reflect on Quayside…Huge missed opportunity to lead smart conscious city, exponential digital era
12:31:22 From Hillary Buchan-Terrell: How do we coach governments on how to manage these big tech projects? They are notoriously bad at implementing complex software and data projects.
12:31:25 From Manuel to All panelists: Such a good point! how can we work proactively
12:31:26 From Lou Zacharilla to All panelists: In the USA we also build municipal networks. In places like Dublin, OH. John Jung knows about this. Do they do it in Canada? Or do your big incumbents control it all?
12:31:27 From Gillian Mason: Disparity according to the OECD access is not only infrastructure but also in skills upgrading; serious, intelligent, well resourced skills upgrading so people also can use the technology once we have got the hard infrastructure in place. With all the willingness in the world. without the investment in skills training, we are leaving increasingly portion of popn behind. We are already investing in the resources to upgrade skills but not with the benefit of the intelligence to inform the training with surgical precision.
12:31:31 From Ana-Francisca de la Mora to All panelists: agreed can we get back to the topic of the future after sidewalk labs
12:31:33 From Joshua Brown to All panelists: Same question as Maureen. Keen to understand what the signaling implication of Sidewalks decision are for Toronto
12:32:02 From Geraldine Cahill: There you go Dina! Tara agrees with you:) Procurement systems need agility.
12:32:17 From Dina Sarhane: Totally share that sentiment with Tara!
12:32:20 From michael morrissey: Google, SWL had the ability to realize CONVERGENCE
12:32:26 From Manuel to All panelists: *proactively on being able to work with companies and balance the procurement laws to get “emergency response” BEFORE we are hit with the emergency.
12:32:39 From Les Klein to All panelists: Sidewalk Labs had the opportunity to demonstrate that the private sector has the vision and capability of addressing these bigger issues far more quickly and with more nimbleness than traditional government. We were so afraid of what “independence” meant that we chased them away.
12:33:00 From Gloria Venczel: Smart technology was the tail that wagged the dog at Waterfront Toronto. Tech is an add-on, or an enhancement of innovative, equitable and vibrant cities but someone or some group has to understand sustainable city building. While community consultation is fundamental, dispersed range of comments will not yield answers without city building expertise. Tech can never drive city building …
12:33:11 From Anna Pace to All panelists: It would be great to have another session just on Quayside.
12:33:17 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: It is a very tired line to say that the issues with progress in city development is about government funding. Our thinking needs to go far beyond this level of basic thinking if we are to innovate at the level required to solve the issues we now face in the 21st century. Sidewalk’s exist was a direct result at the lack of vision and courage to make decisions by Toronto.
12:33:19 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please help CUI improve its CityTalk programming with a short post-webinar survey – https://bit.ly/3fEfm9v
12:35:21 From Ralph cipolla to All panelists: how do communities north of Toronto deal with bringing their economy back
12:35:23 From Gillian Mason: Digital Divide must be overcome; yes. There are those who are working on this that no one is picking this up/listening to. Thank you Jean-Noe.
12:35:32 From Lauralyn Johnston: Agility in procurement is often at odds with transparency and accountability. City of Toronto learned this with the MFP inquiry
12:35:54 From Lester Brown: how do Free trade Agreements fit into procurement policies
12:36:10 From Frances Wilbur to All panelists: Local procurement policies have to go along with some from of capacity building so that local organizations can respond and actually be able to provide services.
12:36:11 From michael morrissey: Jean-Noe, what was your 4th point
12:36:52 From Lauralyn Johnston: https://www.toronto.ca/business-economy/doing-business-with-the-city/social-procurement-program/
12:37:06 From Abby S: @Michael Morrissey -thank you. Wondered the same thing.
12:37:11 From Patrick Phillips: We saw a material shift in Sidewalk’s positioning of technology in the Quayside project. Early on, tech was the driver (“a neighborhood built from the internet up”) and over time tech was subordinated to traditional planning and development concerns.
12:37:25 From Jacques Priol: Hi from France, thank you for this webinar. The withdrawal of SWL is a subject that interests in Europe because the project can be reborn anywhere in the world.
12:38:02 From Lester Brown: many things offered by Sidewalk were not asked for or neded. An example was the autonomous vehicle only driven on the site. A 12 acre site. Easy walking.
12:38:40 From Patrick Phillips: Great point about how Sidewalk’s somewhat-overwhelming response to the ambitious RFP created unrealistic expectations on all sides.
12:39:09 From kathleen Llewellyn-Thoams: Agreed Lester and Patrick
12:40:55 From John Fox to All panelists: there is a lot to say for private companies who respond realistically to RFPs. If the RFP was asking for too much, then I have to ask: should it have failed in the first place?
12:41:05 From Negin Minaei:
Exactly, We had some professional seminars at the CITY Institute at the York University with urbanists and academics from the Netherlands and Europe, they indeed rightly were more worried about the progress of this as some of us do here in Toronto! Worried about the future of urbanization and urban planning by some kind of Google algorithms and AI
12:41:25 From Patrick Phillips: I think Sidewalk’s future will focus on the “Labs” part of their name—investing, incubating, publicizing, and applying these technologies. We’ve learned that big tech companies are ill-equipped to act as developers. The risks are too big and complex, and the returns are relatively modest.
12:41:57 From Chris Fraser to All panelists: Be great if there was some discussion about the potential for IP development in cities – where
12:42:18 From Chris Fraser to All panelists: governments can also develop their own systems to improve service delivery.
12:42:29 From Canadian Urban Institute: Just a reminder to please change your chat settings to “all panelists and attendees” so everyone can see your comments.
12:42:39 From Jiri Skopek to All panelists: Smart city needs to happen one building at a time adding to a connected mesh of smart city
12:43:02 From Lauralyn Johnston: the city still has to provide all the basic services as a city. How does technology improve that performance is the key question.
12:43:10 From Anna Pace: Sidewalk offered a lot more innovation beyond the “smart “ discussion. A discussion on other aspects of Sidewalk would be very interesting.
12:43:11 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: Sidewalk’s departure is a nail in the coffin for indigenous innovation in Canada in regard to cities. It’s a vote against the fundamentally anti-tech approach from Canadian governments.
12:43:33 From Gloria Venczel: I don’t hear too much conversation on pedestrian oriented, equitable city building. With covid- equity will be fundamental as inequity is a statistically significant indicator of pandemic spread. Case in point- this conversation is so irrelevant and ivory tower around venture capital. Not hearing too much about people- the raison d’etre of cities.
12:43:35 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please help CUI improve its CityTalk programming with a short post-webinar survey – https://bit.ly/3fEfm9v
12:44:26 From Abby S: Exactly Mary
12:44:29 From michael morrissey: Agreed w Anna, SWL was a VISION, comprehensive, beyond the capacity of any developer or city
12:44:40 From Brandon Slopack: How do municipal planners integrate ‘smart tech’ into land use planning? Any recommended resources?
12:44:44 From Ric Amis to All panelists: Company Town!
12:44:47 From BJ Danylchuk: Gloria….agreed….the community – the people – aren’t in the conversation – just business and government ….missing architectures of engagement and co-creation…
12:45:03 From Brooks Barnett to All panelists: commercial real estate owns and manages land. isn’t the model moving forward that CRE brings Sidewalk/other providers in as partners? tech doesn’t need to worry about land portion in that scenario.
12:45:03 From Gloria Venczel: Bingo BJ!
12:45:35 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: Complexity is never an excuse for timely problem solving. Governments are notorious for promoting stagnation over innovation and Canada / Toronto should be ashamed at this exit from Sidewalk.
12:45:44 From Canadian Urban Institute: CUI is looking for volunteers to help us continue the great work of our COVID-19 initiatives. If you can help, please contact us at covidresponse@canurb.org
12:45:49 From Lorne Cappe: If we just “bought” their vision and no land grab, would SWL even be interested?
12:46:01 From michael morrissey: Thinking big is a non starter for Municipalities
12:46:11 From Danilo Perkovic to All panelists: When we are talking about the Quayside project, we are not talking about paving roads here. This was a tender for a smart city, and only a few proponents had the knowledge and experience to bid on, and successfully deliver it.
12:46:20 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: We need less government in general.
12:46:22 From Mounir Kabbara to All panelists: consultants can bridge that gap
12:46:26 From David Brown to All panelists: I wonder what the panel thinks about the similarities between the new developments with shopping centres that have a much longer history. Shopping centres seek to mimic real cities by recreating city life but one that is entirely controlled by the company that owns the centre. For me in many ways shopping malls were a precursor to Sidewalk.
12:46:54 From Mounir Kabbara: consultants bridge the gap usually between government and tech-based solution providers
12:47:01 From BJ Danylchuk: Michael…I suggest that is too broad a generalization….I think it may depend on the municipality – and what is meant by “big”.
12:47:34 From Lauralyn Johnston: thinking big may be an issue with the voters… that’s what leadership is for
12:47:46 From David Brown: Opps. The “me” in the comment about shopping centres is David Brown, McGill, Montreal
12:48:11 From michael morrissey: Leadership…hard to find
12:48:16 From Danilo Perkovic to All panelists: @Tara that is spot on…commercial developers are hiring “technologists” to understand and better decide what goes into their buildings
12:48:16 From Jiya Benni: Agreed, Lauralyn and Gloria.
12:48:22 From Gil Penalosa: A huge problem of Sidewalk Toronto was the lack of City Vision by the Mayor, Premier, and PM so no level of government took a leadership role. Waterfront TO is amazing, much great done. They just saw it as image or financial or other but no clue on how it would fit in creating a vibrant and healthy GTA for all. Without political leadership… it. Plus too many people looking for problems to solutions and not enough for solutions to problems.
12:48:36 From Anna Pace to All panelists: Clearly WT thought very big in terms of its aspirations in the RFP as Brian indicated earlier
12:48:52 From Lou Zacharilla to All panelists: We get that cities, tech & life are difficult. Geez. Not exactly an insight. The question Siri needs to ask and answer is: “Where is the balance point between the private sector skill and public sector responsibility?”
12:49:23 From Mick Malowany: It sounds like there’s a bridge between (private sphere) technologists and (public sphere) government or government-like institutions (public agencies, etc.) — I’m curious to hear opinions on how civil engineers and planners are well/poorly positioned as mediators in that relationship.
12:49:58 From Zoe Knowles to All panelists: in order to “think big,” does that require a restructuring of toronto & GTA municipalities by developing a “micro-regional” body that oversees regional issues like housing, transit, and ec dev?
12:50:02 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: Waiting for government is like waiting for Godot
12:50:05 From Canadian Urban Institute: Folks, please change your chat settings to “all panelists and attendees” so everyone can see your comments.
12:50:08 From Mounir Kabbara: well governments rely on consultants. I work in that space and they need a lot of hand holding
12:50:38 From Zoe Knowles: in order to “think big,” does that require a restructuring of toronto & GTA municipalities by developing a “micro-regional” body that oversees regional issues like housing, transit, and ec dev?
12:50:39 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: Government is the problem not the solution.
12:50:40 From Mounir Kabbara: yes RFPs is a good point. government needs the desired outcomes
12:50:49 From Canadian Urban Institute: Keep the conversation going #citytalk
12:50:51 From LoriAnn Girvan: interesting that the key data needed now – contract tracing – many cities are going back to basics – hiring people tracers vs tech
12:50:59 From Mounir Kabbara: when government interferes with solutions it backfires
12:51:12 From LoriAnn Girvan: oops – contact tracing!
12:51:42 From Mounir Kabbara: @Zoe good point about the different roles of local governments. definitely something to consider
12:51:53 From Josie Lee: @LoriAnn Girvan – tech solutions to contact tracing invites concerns around privacy…
12:52:05 From Mick Malowany: @Mounir Do you distinguish between interference in and engagement with solutions? Are there different results with engagement?
12:52:25 From Abby S: As long as municipalities (and other levels0 are stretched for financing, the impulse for private sector solutions will contiue.
12:52:34 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: All great Canadian talent goes to the US. Why?
12:52:39 From Gloria Venczel: There is also the devastating after-effects of the former Ontario Municipal Board, which kicked all local municipal, fine grained local development decisions to the OMB appeal board made up of political appointees. There was not that push and pull between municipal in-house urban design staff that made Vancouver a global livable city wrt to developers and their architects. Local residents stopped trying, as did the city building professions. This appears to have hamstrung Toronto in-house capacity and vision around walkable, vibrant and equitable city building.
12:52:41 From Steve Munro: Contact tracing requires talking to real people to figure out their behaviour and movements. Tech is needed to consolidate the data, but person to person activity is needed to acquire it and chase the details.
12:52:45 From BJ Danylchuk: The proper articulation of an RFP is not about procurement….it is further upstream – in the articulation of the multidimensional nature of the problem, and the strategic characteristics of the desired solution – i.e. the Big “What” – – and that then leaves a big space for innovative folks to articulate a “How” that meets the strategic requirements.
12:52:46 From Mark Richardson: Mick – is the Career-Success of individual Civil Engineers and City Planners dependent upon keep Politicians (and their short-term needs) happy..? Many have been cowed by those Political restraints (eg. Gardiner East Rebuild).
12:53:01 From Mick Malowany: Definitely a consideration
12:53:03 From BJ Danylchuk: …and generating that kind of competency is about developing multidimensional critical thinking…
12:53:06 From Mounir Kabbara: @mick – we can suggest potential solutions providers and help in negotiation
12:53:17 From Mounir Kabbara: but honestly right now I’m involved in scoping an RfP
12:53:38 From Robert McKaye: What types of city infrastructure are in place/development that can employ a multi-partner and multi-experience input? Problems that expand beyond a single land parcel – What are those key areas of city building? Transit? Public Space networks? Retail? Can these components of city building present opportunities for the diversity of partner and company that is being discussed?
12:54:32 From Mounir Kabbara: wow this hits home. so true. we can’t burn the potential vendors
12:54:37 From Chris Fraser to All panelists: Classic procurement issue in North America is how to buy PPE during a pandemic. It’s painful to see BC (before COVID) purchasing approaches of buying low cost, and buying local, when the products needed for healthcare and employees
12:54:39 From Mounir Kabbara: through a poorly written rfp
12:54:52 From Alan McNair: Latest comments by panel suggest to me that the discussion ;about what tech can do for us and what we need it to do and who decides on this is much like what natural green infrastructure can do for us in helping to resolve many of our municipal infrastructure and quality of life issues in ouir communities. Any panel comments on this idea?
12:54:55 From michael morrissey: Toronto is a fairly ordinary city. IMO, SWL elevated the city to another level and discourse that represented the future of city building and consciously shaping the convergence of tech and the built environment, the SWL showroom was full of so many innovations and new thinking.
12:55:10 From Chris Fraser to All panelists: are not local and not easily purchased (almost a warfare situation).
12:55:21 From Gloria Venczel: I don’t hear anyone who has identified a socio-economic city building problem to which tech is the answer.
12:55:29 From Canadian Urban Institute: You can find transcripts and recordings of today’s and all our webinars at
https://canurb.org/citytalk
12:55:30 From Mounir Kabbara: tech is an enabler to let cities make better decisions that improve quality of life
12:55:45 From BJ Danylchuk: Robert – a great example or two is the current process underway around transit extensions in Toronto – the original process used for the Downtown Relief Line, which was stopped when the Ontario government replaced the design with the Ontario Line – and the process supporting the Ontario line is more “check the box” rather than have real engagement….
12:56:00 From Mounir Kabbara: who decides? you need multi stakeholder engagement in decision making
12:56:11 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: We can’t keep talking about government when thinking about innovation. This is fundamentally anti-tech thinking.
12:56:24 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: It’s anti-progress.
12:57:16 From kathleen Llewellyn-Thoams: Mods is what Vancouver did in 2018
12:57:35 From James Chan to All panelists: QUOTE REQUEST FOR ARTICLE
Thank you to all the panellists for your insights – I’m sure there was much more you didn’t have a chance to get to.
I’m collecting a roundup of thoughts on Sidewalk Labs’ departure for an article on Future of Good (www.futureofgood.co).
ASK: Would you be interested in sharing a distillation of your thoughts on “what the end of this project means for the future of smart cities in Canada?”
Looking for ~ 100 words by Wednesday if possible, not just from a Toronto-centric or urbanism perspective, but to help social impact leaders make sense of smart cities projects underway in communities across the country. I’m at james@futureofgood.co – thank you again.
12:57:37 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please help CUI improve its CityTalk programming with a short post-webinar survey – https://bit.ly/3fEfm9v
12:57:41 From kathleen Llewellyn-Thoams: Biggest challenge was the Building Code compliance
12:57:57 From Nicola Casciato: Toronto doesn’t need to be “smarter” it needs to be more diverse in terms of diverse industries, manufacturing and employment. Cities make their money based on taxes and parking tickets. Lets not forget how the future of 3D printing will change the employment and manufacturing landscape over the next 20 years.
12:58:16 From Lauralyn Johnston: And for modular – getting providers. Still mostly out west.
12:58:17 From Gloria Venczel: Has anyone followed Jim Balsillie. Mr. Blackberry Smart Phone? Sidewalk labs would have crippled and destroyed the tech insdusrty in Canada. Not an economic answer for Canada
12:58:35 From Canadian Urban Institute: Chat will stay open after the webinar ends, so feel free to keep the discussion going.
12:59:17 From Lou Zacharilla: So all the Volvo car owners have spoken. Now what do we do for essential workers? The people who have to show up?
12:59:18 From Patrick Phillips: Hard to imagine that government will be less risk-averse after the pandemic
12:59:27 From John Fox to All panelists: But there are couple coming on line in Ontario. It’s becoming an important industry.
12:59:33 From Josie Lee: @CUI – Will the chat transcript also be available along with the webinar recording? Would hate to lose all this great discussion…
12:59:41 From John Fox to All panelists: Sorry – a couple of modular providers…
13:00:13 From Daniel Nedecki to All panelists: Why do most talented entrepreneurs defect to the US? We have some serious questions to answer in regard to our culture of anti-progress and anti-innovation here in Canada.
13:00:18 From Lars Henriksson: How come cities in Europe, e.g. Stockholm, Goteborg, Malmo, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Berlin, Amsterdam just to mention a few can build innovative sustainable cities without outsourcing to companies like Sidewalk Labs?
13:00:19 From michael morrissey: I appreciated SWL’s openness to share the ideas and innovations and vision both in NY office and at the showroom. You don’t see this open forum in the current model of city and development community.
13:00:23 From John Fox: THere are a couple of modular builders coming in Ontario. It’s going to be an important industry.
13:00:26 From Sue Hallatt: Chat will be posted at canurb.org/citytalk. follow the links to this recording. transcript will be there too!
13:00:34 From Mathieu Goetzke: WFT should focus on the two main objectives for a growing metropolis: affordable housing and sustainable mobility.
13:01:14 From Gloria Venczel: @Michael- that is the right question. Tech is not core to sustainable cities- it is only a subservient tool.
13:01:38 From James Chan to All panelists: QUOTE REQUEST FOR ARTICLE
Thank you to all the panellists for your insights – I’m sure there was much more you didn’t have a chance to get to.
I’m collecting a roundup of thoughts on Sidewalk Labs’ departure for an article on Future of Good (www.futureofgood.co).
ASK: Would you be interested in sharing a distillation of your thoughts on “what the end of this project means for the future of smart cities in Canada?”
Looking for ~ 100 words by Wednesday if possible, not just from a Toronto-centric or urbanism perspective, but to help social impact leaders make sense of smart cities projects underway in communities across the country. I’m at james@futureofgood.co – thank you again.
13:01:38 From Patrick Phillips: Nice concluding point by Tara!
13:01:49 From Siri Agrell: Great concluding point!
13:01:56 From BJ Danylchuk: Thanks everyone!!
13:02:01 From berjit takhar to All panelists: Great discussion !!!!
13:02:03 From kathleen Llewellyn-Thoams: Great Panel discussion. Thanks CUI.
13:02:04 From Geraldine Cahill: Thanks all. Great discussion again #citytalk
13:02:08 From Toby Greenbaum to All panelists: This was a great session. Thanks
13:02:08 From Farhan Dhanani to All panelists: Thanks all for sharing your stories!
13:02:08 From Abby S: That you to the panelists!
13:02:09 From berjit takhar to All panelists: Thanks everyone !
13:02:10 From Jean-Noé Landry (Open North) to All panelists: Thank you, that was great!
13:02:11 From Julie Taylor: Thank you so much panelists and Mary! Great job facilitating!
13:02:12 From Charles Crenna: Thank you for the interesting event!
13:02:15 From Daniela Bodden: Thank you!
13:02:16 From Emily Rosen to All panelists: Thanks all for the great chat!
13:02:16 From Eva Chu: Thanks everyone! I really enjoyed this panel!!!
13:02:17 From Jeff Sowa to All panelists: Thank you all for your time and sharing your knowledge!!
13:02:17 From Lisa Mactaggart: This has been a great conversation. Thank you panel.
13:02:21 From Mick Malowany: Thank you! Such a great talk everyone!
13:02:21 From Gillian Mason: well done Mary
13:02:23 From Zahra Ebrahim to All panelists: Thanks Mary!
13:02:24 From Emily Wall, CUI Staff: Please help CUI improve its CityTalk programming with a short post-webinar survey – https://bit.ly/3fEfm9v
13:02:25 From Lisa Cavicchia, CUI Staff: Thanks to ULI Toronto!
13:02:45 From Lester Brown: Thank you, a great discussion.
13:02:54 From michael morrissey: Agreed thanks ULI!
13:02:57 From dan schumacher to All panelists: Thank you beneficial
13:03:24 From Ivan Sierralta to All panelists: Thanks to all speakers. Great initiative CUI!
13:04:02 From Geraldine Cahill: While this chat is still on-going…and knowing that it’s not about SWL, have people seen this video on the Port Lands development? It’s cheesy, but the vision is exciting. Does anyone know much more about it? I stumbled on the video by chance one day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT83KPN3JR4
13:04:18 From Alex Speigel: Great panel discussion and excellent points made by attendees in this chat session. Thank you.
13:06:06 From Canadian Urban Institute: CUI wishes to thank ULI for their partnership in today’s webinar.
13:09:03 From Martin Gerwin: Thanks for a great panel discussion. One lesson the whole community should take away from the experience with Sidewalk is to insist on transparency from all participants at every stage of the negotiations. It was not a good sign when we discovered that Sidewalk had designs, in terms of data collection, on a much larger area than the land they would actually own.
13:11:33 From Canadian Urban Institute: If you can leave your final comments now, we will close the chat in a couple of minutes. Thanks for a great discussion.
