Barrie’s Mayor: On Declaring an Emergency to Address Encampments

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Transcript

Note to readers: This video session was transcribed using auto-transcribing software.  Questions or concerns with the transcription can be directed to communications@canurb.org with “transcription” in the subject line.

Mary Rowe: [00:00:02] Welcome to City Talk, the show about what’s working, what’s not, and what’s next for the places we live. I’m Mary Rowe and I lead the Canadian Urban Institute. [00:00:09][7.6]

Alex Nuttall: [00:00:14] If you don’t have a standard of what is acceptable and what’s not acceptable, you end up in the position that we’ve ended up, which is a whole bunch of encampments, a whole lot of people, and the inability for the system to even properly respond. [00:00:28][14.5]

Mary Rowe: [00:00:34] Homeless encampments have become a common sight in many of Canada’s cities, particularly since the pandemic. I think a lot of us were wishing they might just magically go away, but they have not. The challenges are clearly experienced by the people affected directly who need housing and care. But it’s also posing a serious and profound challenge to the healthy economic and social functioning of our cities and towns. People don’t wanna go downtown, they don’t want to visit a park or use transit or go shopping along their main street. And when we’re confronted, now even on a daily basis, by a situation where clearly someone needs help and they’re not getting it, it erodes our sense of hopefulness and belief in our society. Chronic street homelessness and mental health challenges are feeding what I’m describing as a perverse doom loop where public support and investment, which must be part of the solution, is eroding. So we’re doing a series of programs on the challenges cities and towns of every size are facing and how we can get the most effective solutions. We’ll be featuring a variety of perspectives, starting with the mayor of Barrie, Ontario, Alex Nuttall. He’ll talk about why he declared a state of emergency in his city on the 9th of September and how he hopes to overcome this crisis. Nuttal is a former MP and has been mayor since 2022. We spoke in late September. [00:01:55][81.1]

Mary Rowe: [00:02:03] What made you decide to declare a state of emergency? [00:02:05][1.8]

Alex Nuttall: [00:02:06] Well, look, I think this issue has been one that’s been going on for a very long time, right? I mean, it’s not something that’s new to Barry. It’s certainly not something new to Canada. [00:02:14][7.9]

Mary Rowe: [00:02:15] So you’ve been mayor since 2022. And prior to that, you were the federal member, right? [00:02:20][5.1]

Alex Nuttall: [00:02:20] Correct. [00:02:20][0.0]

Mary Rowe: [00:02:21] Okay, so you’ve got, and then part of that you were on council. So you have been a steward of the Barrie community for over a decade. [00:02:29][7.2]

Alex Nuttall: [00:02:29] Yes, since 2006, I was elected in 06. [00:02:31][2.1]

Mary Rowe: [00:02:32] Wow. Wow. [00:02:33][0.7]

Alex Nuttall: [00:02:33] It really started to break in the later part of the 2010s and what we saw was initially the opioid and fentanyl crisis emergency coming to town. We’re on the 400, which is a major artery. What we had heard about happening in Vancouver and BC and spreading to Edmonton and so on and so forth eventually made its way through Northern Ontario and down through Barrie. And I actually asked in 2019 for Barrie city council to declare an emergency with relation to the opioid and fentanyl crisis, and really get into the rehab game, get into a position where the local authorities are actually going to organize, remove silos, and be able to get rehabilitation, addiction support, mental health support, shelter support, done in an effective way. And so you fast forward six years after that, now I’ve declared the state of emergency after trying everything else not to. [00:03:44][71.1]

Mary Rowe: [00:03:46] Did they, when you asked for it in 2019, they didn’t do it? [00:03:48][2.3]

Alex Nuttall: [00:03:48] No, it was, you know, it’s one of those things that I think the politics got in the way of the right decision at the time. And that’s okay, you obviously can’t win every vote every time. And I was certainly going into a subject matter and into a place that was not at the level of government that I was serving. But what I was asking for was at the federal level to declare an emergency, at the municipal level to declared an emergency. Because this was… back in ’18, it was a pan-Canadian issue. You know, since then, it’s hit Halifax, it hit Quebec, it’s hit Toronto and London and Windsor. It’s hit Belleville and Kingston and Ottawa, right? Like there’s just, it doesn’t matter where you go now. [00:04:33][44.9]

Mary Rowe: [00:04:34] So when you were a fed, you said to the city, declare a state of emergency, and I appreciate you were trying to get the federal government’s attention when you are a federal member, because I, like you, continue to feel that we need federal engagement on this, at least if only to incentivize and compel the kind of tri-level, or even in some cases, four-level order governments to get involved coordinating. And then you need all the other players who aren’t government, who also contribute to the solution. But just give me the numbers if you could right now. And then we’ll talk about this mechanism you’ve elected to exercise, declaring a state of emergency. But how many encampments do you think you’ve got in Barry and how many people in them, roughly? [00:05:11][36.5]

Alex Nuttall: [00:05:11] Last week, 23 encampments. [00:05:12][1.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:05:14] And the smallest would have how many people, the largest would have how many people? [00:05:17][3.0]

Alex Nuttall: [00:05:17] Yeah, the smallest would have, you know, two or three tents, maybe four. The largest has, I visited with the premier on Saturday, actually. [00:05:25][7.5]

Mary Rowe: [00:05:25] Did the premier come to look? [00:05:26][0.7]

Alex Nuttall: [00:05:28] Yes. And when we visited, I’m going to guess that there’s a hundred to a hundred and in there. [00:05:33][5.0]

Mary Rowe: [00:05:34] Oh, really in the largest one. And just for our listeners’ benefit, because CityTalk draws a very broad listenership, as you can imagine. They’re not all, you know, head down focusing on these issues every day. So just give people a bit of a flavor of what kind of person is in an encampment, what has led them to be in that circumstance? [00:05:51][17.0]

Alex Nuttall: [00:05:54] I think that’s a pretty broad spectrum of people. I’ll tell you a story from Saturday, which was mind-boggling to me. It was, you know, at the time I described it as jarring, so I’ll stick to that word because it was the most honest reaction. We had visited with the Premier to an encampment in just outside the downtown of Barrie. And when we were there, as soon as we got there, a lady walked out of the encampments. She was seven years old. And she all of a sudden looked up and said, Premier Ford, you know, Mayor Nuttall, wow. I’m shocked to see you guys. And then she proceeded to tell us, you’re gonna have a really hard time clearing up this encampment. And she said, you now, I shouldn’t be talking to you because I can be killed for talking to, I could be abused or assaulted for talking you. And she set the word killed. I didn’t report that to the media until now, but she said that we’re killed for that. [00:06:47][52.9]

Mary Rowe: [00:06:48] She was apprehensive about being seen to be talking with people in authority. [00:06:55][7.3]

Alex Nuttall: [00:06:55] Exactly. So we immediately, we had folks from Simcoe County there who were able to provide the advice and support and offered her a place to live and the mental health supports and all of that stuff. So that was the good news because these things are dealt with one individual at a time. The bad news is the spectrum is from that lady who’s very vulnerable to people that we’ve seen literally, allegedly commit murder inside of these encampments. That’s not like a small thing, right? That’s as bad as it gets. And the drugs, the drug money pouring around encampment, the weapons, we had one tent with two crossbows, four knives, a starter pistol, drug money, drugs, like, you know, this isn’t a safe community or safe place to live. These are not safe places for those who live there. They’re not safe place for those who are around them. [00:07:58][62.6]

Mary Rowe: [00:07:59] This is the challenge, is what is the compassionate approach to the person you encountered, for instance, who had anxiety about being seen to be engaging with you. And as you suggest, may have any number of circumstances that have led them into this situation where they can’t find supportive housing, or they haven’t been able to find affordable housing, or they’ve been living in their car, or all these situations. We’ve heard anecdotes from Halifax, for instances, where there was an encampment for several months right outside City Hall and they would talk, the staff would tell us that at 8:30 or 9 in the morning people were coming out of tents and going to their jobs. So it’s not only the kind of subculture that you’re describing around other kinds of illegal activity. There’s lots of regular folk who can’t find accommodation that they can afford or the supports they require who find themselves with no other choice. So as you say, this is why it’s difficult, you can’t just characterize encampments as one kind of person or one kind of circumstance, I appreciate that. And I’m also interested that when you and the premier were there, you had staff supports so that if you did have those kinds of encounters you were able to provide some kind of referral support. So let’s chat a bit about that. The declaring the state of emergency, why did you feel that was the path to go? What is it allowing you to do now that you couldn’t do before? [00:09:22][82.5]

Alex Nuttall: [00:09:22] I think that there’s in the city of Barrie there’s this unique circumstance where the city doesn’t actually run social services and neither does the province as a service manager which is the county of Simcoe and with that there is the silos that exist between the organizations because they’re structurally separate organizations. What the state of emergency has allowed us to do is to bring everything under one roof to launch our emergency management team. That means the chief administrative officer for the City of Barrie is the head of the emergency management. And police services, bylaw services, the County of Simcoe, the agencies, all now fall under the emergency management team. [00:10:09][46.8]

Mary Rowe: [00:10:10] So that’s empowered you to create an organizational structure where we hope we can get some alignment, I guess, and some better coordination. [00:10:19][8.9]

Alex Nuttall: [00:10:19] It already has delivered alignment and better coordination. The County of Simcoe was able to launch at the same time that we went into an emergency 160 new beds. And you know space for individuals. We have the Heart Hub that’s opening up right now, the Heart Hubs for those who aren’t in Ontario are really the focus of rehabilitation, physical and mental health support. So you have nurses on site, you have addictions counselors, you have mental health counselors on site to try to help those individuals get into shelter, stabilize, then move into transitional housing which we’ve launched, then move into affordable housing and eventually move back into market and a successful life. So there’s lots of things that we’re able to coordinate under that emergency. What I did was I said to our staff in the emergency, one, work with the county and bring this emergency management team together. And the second is, if the county is not able to fulfill the expectations of the city of Barrie, start spending money to make sure that we have resources in place to support the individuals. And what I’ve said to the market when I say to the market I mean to those who are out in our community and this is to those who are living in homes and those who aren’t living in homes because I think part of this is setting the standard and the expectation of what is okay and what is beneficial to our community. And that is, if you want help, like in Barrie, we’re going to help you. Right? Like, that’s what I’m freeing up the resources for. If you don’t want help and you want to live in a life of addiction, if you want live in life of drug dealing or you want to live a tent, Barrie’s not the place for you. Go somewhere else. Because the compassion inside of me and inside of our city council, inside of city, our people, our population, is to help those who want help. Like, there is real compassion there. But we have had enough of the drug dealers, we’ve had enough for those taking advantage of the mental health concerns that individuals are facing. And we’ve have enough of people living in addiction, in parks, stopping kids from going down slides, taking over, in some cases, our waterfront parks, it’s just enough. [00:12:35][135.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:12:36] I can hear the enough I hear that and I feel like we’re at a moment in our larger culture where people are sort of saying enough and so always the concern is in terms of addressing these kinds of challenges are we continuing to appreciate how complicated it is that people need a range of services and it’s not there’s no easy solution and I think that there are people that just say well just clear encampments but the dilemma is, have you got the pathways of care in place? Do you have all the resources you need? [00:13:09][33.4]

Alex Nuttall: [00:13:11] Before we get to the resources I need, I think let’s talk about what the resources that we’re willing to support. Because there are those with different opinions than myself on what are the most important resources. You know, I don’t support an injection site in the City of Barrie. I think they’ve been proven to not do much more than warehouse individuals. Maybe you save an individual who’s having an overdose at that place. Those you can’t save, they’re off to the hospital, the health care center, and we don’t really get a person who’s died from an overdose until they get there. So the stats are not good inside of injection sites. And so I’ve been absolutely against having an injection site inside the City of Barrie, not just because of the increased assaults that happen around them, the increased petty theft that happens around them and increased sexual assaults around them. But because it’s not the right decision for the individual inside of that area, we want to provide rehab, we wanna provide supports, we’re gonna provide help to get longer term out of the problem. [00:14:21][70.0]

Mary Rowe: [00:14:22] But mayor, you know, just to anticipate people listening to this broadcast here are going to be on the other side of this issue. If the question is, where is the most effective intervention point to support that person who is in the grip of some kind of relationship with substances. And the question, and I think the people that advocate for safe consumption sites would say better to have a place, a safe place where you can have that conversation. But what I’m hearing from you is people have lost their patience about how long it might take. So the dilemma you’ve got now is without safe consumption sites, people that are involved in substance use will consume more publicly. That’s sort of the dilemma, I think, right? But I want to go further too. I hear the philosophy you’re taking and what I want to hear then is if, if you have someone who’s in an encampment and you want that encampament to no longer exist, do you have enough places, supports, options for that person to be relocated to and do you need more resources to do it? [00:15:25][63.8]

Alex Nuttall: [00:15:25] Well, look, we don’t go into every encampment day one and remove them. [00:15:29][3.4]

Mary Rowe: [00:15:30] No, no, I was going to say it’s a process, right? [00:15:31][0.9]

Alex Nuttall: [00:15:31] Yeah, this is a process and it’s not one-dimensional in the sense that it’s not about just shelter, because if an individual hits 30 days stable in shelter, they’re going to qualify for transitional housing. [00:15:41][10.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:15:42] Right. [00:15:42][0.0]

Alex Nuttall: [00:15:43] And so then if you have a hundred spots and 30 of them are turning over every month, you know, by the sixth month, you have to have 300 spots. Right? Because those other individuals are moving in transitional housing, they’re moving down. [00:15:55][12.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:15:55] Have you got enough? Have you got enough shelters, enough transitional? [00:15:58][2.5]

Alex Nuttall: [00:15:58] Yeah, I think we have, for everything we’ve done so far, yes. And so we’ve removed three of our four largest encampments. We’ve given notice on smaller ones and removed smaller ones. Some of those are only a couple of people, right? But… [00:16:13][14.5]

Mary Rowe: [00:16:13] And you’re able and you’ve been able to, as you say, it’s name by name, person by person. So you’re doing a case management person by person… [00:16:20][6.3]

Alex Nuttall: [00:16:20] Yeah, yeah. The county has support workers. We go out to the encampment in advance. I want to say we, it’s a royal we. [00:16:26][5.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:16:27] Yeah yeah, I get it. [00:16:28][0.9]

Alex Nuttall: [00:16:28] The County of Simcoe folks go out to the encampments in advance and say, hey, we want to offer you space. We want to offer you care. We wanna offer you support. Please take it. Please, take it, please take it. After a week or so, they’ll then go in and say okay, this is the notice that there’s gonna be a trespass order delivered if you haven’t vacated the place and accepted the support. The good news is, of the 44 people that were in the encampment on Mulcaster Street, which is like right in front of our jail and maybe… I don’t know 200 meters from city hall of those 44, 39 of them accepted support and help. Those are really really good statistics. [00:17:05][37.6]

Mary Rowe: [00:17:06] I mean I hear you, I hear that and obviously it’s a tribute to your team and also to the people finding themselves in these situations that they’re receptive to the support that’s being offered to them. I appreciate it’s a small number. What do you say to the folks that say, no that’s not for me, I’m not going to accept any of the support help you’re providing. The message to them is what? [00:17:24][17.8]

Alex Nuttall: [00:17:24] The message is, if you want to live in addictions, you want live in a tent, then go somewhere that sanctions that and allows that because it’s not the City of Barrie. [00:17:31][7.1]

Mary Rowe: [00:17:32] And the dilemma is gonna be for you is you’ve got 21 or something and you’re done a handful, right? So I guess part of the interesting question I think lots of folks would ask is, how do we not know that you get those resettled and then that just leads to that person moving onto somewhere else. And do we just, this is gonna be so interesting the experiment that you’re embarking on here. [00:17:53][20.9]

Alex Nuttall: [00:17:53] We’ve already encountered that. So what happened initially in July, there was a shutdown of an encampment, probably our second largest encampament. And through that, that was by the police services because of an investigation. So through that you have an immediate need for the individuals who were inside of that with no ability to organize it in advance. The individuals were immediately displaced. With that happening, the next thing we needed to do was to be able to understand how long is it going to happen, all of those things. So those individuals, probably a lot of them moved over to Mallcaster Street. And by moving over to Mullcaster Street, we’re dealing with them over at Anne, now we’re dealing with a Mallcaster. Some of those on Ann, there was five left on Anne that didn’t take support, they probably moved over Milligan’s Pond, which is the last remaining large encampments, so there’s definitely, you know, this is a transient population in and out of Barrie. It’s also transient population inside of the city of Barrie. And I think, you know, we recognize that and obviously we will be working through it. But if you don’t have a standard of what is acceptable and what’s not acceptable, you end up in the position that we’ve ended up, which is a whole bunch of encampments, a whole lot of people, and the inability for the system to even properly respond to that. [00:19:24][90.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:19:26] What are, tell me what the advocates, I know there will be advocates on either side here. Tell me how’s the conversation gone between you and the advocates who see encampments as part of the right to housing? And then the other folks that would say, no, no, this is too disruptive. How have you navigated that dynamic? [00:19:40][14.6]

Alex Nuttall: [00:19:41] Look, I don’t have time for the conversation that the tent is right to housing when our temperatures get to minus 40 and 45. That’s a really, really, bad argument, right? You know, we’ve had people burn to death inside of their tents because they’re trying to stay in their tents with propane tanks and propane heaters. That is not once, that is multiple times. These are not safe conditions. It’s not just because of the criminality. It’s because we live in an extreme climate where we have plus 40 and minus 40 in the same 12 month period, right? The easy seasons are the spring and fall. In between the summer and the winter are very, very, very difficult to navigate to the city of Barrie because of extreme heat and the extreme cold. [00:20:28][46.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:20:27] Because of heat and cold. So some of what you’re doing now is anticipating winter is coming and the cold is coming. [00:20:32][4.9]

Alex Nuttall: [00:20:33] No, no, no. I don’t think so. Like, this isn’t about winter’s coming. It’s about what are the standards for the city of Barrie and what are standards for Western society as to what’s acceptable on our streets. And tents on sidewalks where people are supposed to be able to use walkers and wheelchairs, it’s just not acceptable. [00:20:55][22.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:20:56] Are you talking to your colleagues across the country? Are you guys and gals comparing notes about we’re gonna try this, we’re going to try that? Is there some way for us to lift all boats with this, that we improve the practice to get ourselves to whatever the next stage of urbanism needs to look like? [00:21:12][15.7]

Alex Nuttall: [00:21:12] So we’ve just launched a website called restoreorder.ca. We are moving with a petition. The intent of the petition is clear and illegal encampments and provide the services that are required. But I just want to point out that there’s more than just money that’s needed inside of this problem. Like there’s actual policy changes and it’s never sexy to talk about policy, right? Because we kind of put a whole bunch of people in this thing. [00:21:37][25.0]

Mary Rowe: [00:21:36] Believe me, I know that, Alex. That’s my world. But that’s my world. [00:21:38][2.6]

Alex Nuttall: [00:21:39] We’ve got to, right? We have to. [00:21:40][1.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:21:41] It’s never sexy, but we got to make policy sexy. I get it. But let me just let me just push back on restoreorder.ca. That sounds pretty muscular to me. You know, I’m assuming you want everybody to come online with what you’re trying to address. How can you, how can you allay any concerns that that sounds too much like enforcement and, and, too harsh. [00:22:01][19.8]

Alex Nuttall: [00:22:01] It is enforcement. But it is enforcement. I mean, like, the enforcement, though, this, and I look, I’ve been trying to get to this. Let me get this one thing out to you, okay, Mary? One thing here. The idea that we wait for people to overdose, whether they’re in an injection site or outside of the street, okay, before we have a mandatory intervention is ludicrous, right? Because when you go and you hit someone with naloxone without asking their permission, what you’re doing is you’re conducting an intervention in their life. Why are we waiting for near death or death experiences to intervene? It doesn’t make sense, it’s not a compassionate society that allows people to live to the edge of death when there’s an alternative, right? So the policy and the philosophy, you said philosophy before, you take that philosophy and you turn it into policy. We have to have the ability to intervene, to have compassionate intervention, we need to have resources. If there’s anywhere that I’m begging for resources, besides just cleaning up after the encampments, which is an immediate thing, right, and quite frankly, we’ll find our way through it if no one gives us resources for that, is resource the mental health system, reform the mental-health acts, allow for interventions to take place. Give options. Jail time or rehabilitation. That’s what Portugal did, and that’s why they were so effective. [00:23:26][85.4]

Mary Rowe: [00:23:27] I hear you. I hear you. So you’re suggesting how do we get support and intervention earlier in the cycle of a person’s particular challenge? How do we get those interventions? [00:23:39][11.8]

Alex Nuttall: [00:23:40] We need the feds at the table. [00:23:41][1.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:23:42] Tell me how we need the feds and then I’m going to, then we’ll wrap it up. Tell me what, what would you like? Go back to your previous life when you were in caucus, what do you see the challenge to be in terms of moving federal colleagues and the federal government, because, you know, they’ll say this isn’t their jurisdiction. Healthcare is provincial. Nobody seems to own mental health. It’s been one of our frustrations at the urban Institute. We’ve been trying to raise this. It’s kind of nobody’s problem and everybody’s problem, but it’s interesting for many years, the federal government ducked housing and now they appreciate it’s their problem. How do you think we can move your former federal colleagues to see their role in leading this? [00:24:16][34.0]

Alex Nuttall: [00:24:16] Well, let me speak from the mayor’s standpoint on this, right? The idea that mayors and councils, many of them part-time, I don’t know about your part of the world, but in our part of the word, the councils, part-timers, full-time mayor, can meet the day to deal with the broken bail system, the broken justice system, and the broken healthcare system using the resources we have as ludicrous. Like, not only do we not have the monetary resources, but we actually don’t have the legislative right or levers to deal with these issues. So on the federal level, we need to fix the justice system. It’s federal judges that are continually undermining municipal laws and municipal bylaws that are making it difficult to have order in our streets. And that order helps the individuals who are hurting the most more than it helps anybody else, right? And so we need the feds to recognize there’s an issue here. And if it means them looking at the, the federal government looking at the notwithstanding clause, look, we know what the answer is from last week, so I’m not gonna pretend that I didn’t hear what I heard last week. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t have the same position as I did before the Prime Minister Carney said that he wanted to move provinces away from using the Notwithstanding Clause and get the Supreme Court to ham in on it, right? But what’s happening right now is his federal judges are legislating what municipalities can do to keep our streets safe and clean. On the provincial level, we do need to look at the Mental Health Act and we need to make sure that we can actually intervene at the proper opportunities to provide support. So it doesn’t get to the person going out onto the street. So it does get to that level. Like let’s stem the issue before it becomes an emergency of life or death. It makes so much sense, but we need to have alignment of the feds. We need alignment from the province. And in our case, we need alignment from the County of Simcoe and the City of Barrie. And we’ve got that now and we know what the results look like. 39 to 44 individuals, Encampments are going down every week. People are getting help and support and we’re moving forward in a very comprehensive way. [00:26:26][129.3]

Mary Rowe: [00:26:27] Mayor Nuttall, I’m very appreciative of you taking the time to talk to us, particularly so early on in this approach, because you only declared the state a couple of weeks ago and it’s a new environment in which you’re operating. You know, what you describe around the order of government’s alignment here, but also the challenges when a federal government is making decisions or holding resources and the municipal government actually is dealing with all the on-the-ground challenges. And there’s a mismatch not just in. The supports that you’re describing and the issues around community safety. This replicates it on almost every aspect of urban life, right? Housing, economic development, where we continually and our bias at CUI would be, how do you get resources into local governments and into local entities because you’re the ones on the ground who see what’s really happening and what the solutions can be and you are incubating a solution and I’m very appreciative of you joining us and we’re going to watch with great interest. We’ll come back to you if we can. Because I know that everyone shares your concern that cities and communities are for everyone. And to create environments where everyone has accessibility and has the benefits of the amenities and the services that are in a municipal environment, it’s important that everyone have that. And when you have certain kinds of activities or uses that are not open to everyone, that’s a problem for everybody. [00:27:46][79.5]

Alex Nuttall: [00:27:47] Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me on. I’d love to come back and I appreciate the discussion and dialogue. [00:27:52][5.2]

Mary Rowe: [00:27:53] Thank you for listening to this episode of City Talk, where we focus on what’s working, what’s not, and what’s next for cities in Canada. We’ll continue this series about the challenges of the downtowns and main streets. Next time, we’ll move to Vancouver’s Downtown East Side, which notably has had higher levels of homelessness and substance challenges, really, for several decades. But we’re gonna look at something we don’t hear as much about, and that is what is working there. We’ll see you then. City Talk is a podcast from the Canadian Urban Institute produced by Antica Productions. Our producer is Kevin Sexton. Our executive producers are Laura Regehr and Stuart Coxe and Jack Bailey mixes the show. If you’re enjoying this show, please give us a rating and review it in your podcast app. You can also follow the Canadian Urban Institute on YouTube to find a video version of this show and other content like it. I’m Mary Rowe. We’ll be back in two weeks for another episode of City Talk, what’s working, what’s not, and what needs to be next for the places we live in. [00:27:53][0.0]

[1609.5]

5 Key
Takeaways

1. Declaring an Emergency Highlights Systemic Gaps

The decision by Mayor Nuttall to declare a state of emergency in Barrie reveals how fragmented municipal, provincial, and county responsibilities have left cities ill-equipped to coordinate care, shelter, and supports for people in encampments. This move enabled Barrie to unify agencies under an emergency management team, aligning police, county services, and health supports. Yet, the root problem—a lack of comprehensive, well-funded systems for housing and mental health—remains a challenge that most Canadian cities face. This episode is a case study for why local governments need broader alignment and flexibility to respond to crises that cross jurisdictional boundaries.

2. Encampments Reflect Diverse Experiences and Needs

The conversation highlighted that encampments are not homogenous: residents include retirees facing housing loss, people with jobs, and others navigating addiction or trauma. Mayoral anecdotes revealed the mix of vulnerability and danger—stories include individuals afraid even to engage with help, alongside incidents of violence and criminal activity. However, the broader lesson is that bans and clearances don’t address the complexity of people’s needs. Effective responses require trauma-informed, person-by-person engagement and a commitment to the fundamental right to housing and care, not just enforcement.

3. Coordinated Pathways of Care Are Critical

Barrie’s new approach involves connecting encampment residents to emergency shelter, transitional housing, and ultimately stable, affordable homes. While statistics show that most people accepted support—such as 39 out of 44 individuals at the Mulcaster Street site—these numbers must be interpreted with caution. This takeaway underscores the importance of investing in sufficient shelter, wraparound health services, and case management. The takeaway cautions policymakers to ensure that the process prioritizes agency and choice, and recognizes the complexities behind consent to support services.

4. Debates Over Harm Reduction and Enforcement Persist

Mayor Nuttall advocated against supervised consumption sites, citing safety and efficacy concerns, and instead promoted mandatory interventions for addiction, referencing European models like Portugal. Nevertheless, the host and broader advocacy community support harm reduction as a vital tool for engaging people who use substances. This tension epitomizes ongoing policy debates and the need for nuanced, locally tailored solutions. Cities must weigh enforcement and community safety against compassion and public health, ensuring that all approaches uphold dignity and rights.

5. Municipalities Need Resources and Authority for Real Solutions

A final takeaway is the urgent call for senior governments—federal and provincial—to provide both funding and policy reform. Mayor Nuttall noted that the biggest limitations facing cities include restricted powers over mental health interventions, inadequate bail and justice systems, and insufficient resources for long-term housing. The podcast made clear that lasting solutions require coordinated legislative changes, sustained investments, and recognition that cities alone cannot resolve the spiralling crises of homelessness, addiction, and inadequate housing.